Varoufakis: "Madrid wants to crush Catalonia to teach them a lesson"

Interview with former Minister Greek Finance criticizing the government 's Rajoy of the Catalan crisis. Carlos Carnicero Urabayen  journalist and political analyst CARLOS CARNICERO out of power, but not in the spotlight,  Yanis Varoufakis  (Athens, 1961) still maintains intact its ability to provoke and to have a proper analysis away to the establishment of the European Union light years: "if Catalonia achieved independence would find a suitable solution in five minutes reapply for entry and be readmitted." The European Commission has repeated since 2004 just the opposite.

Although his term as Greek finance minister lasted only six months, no one forgets his charismatic figure, inevitably associated with managing a Greek crisis that put his country with one foot outside the euro. Greece went bankrupt,  with an included banking corralito , but Varoufakis not afraid, however, that something similar could happen in Catalonia: "The European Central Bank would find a formula easy to extend assistance system liquidity way , " he says. Yanis Varoufakis founded last year  DiEM25 , a European leftist movement with which it aims to promote a "truly democratic and borderless" Europe. Hours before submitting your project in Brussels, the Greek ex - minister has spoken with HuffPostsobre 

the crisis in Catalonia , referenda, we, the brexit and Donald Trump. Its forecast for Europe is that either the European Union becomes a true democracy or disintegrate. With the brexit, the British have decided to leave the EU. Catalonia now the separatists threaten to leave Spain. Do you find similar phenomena?

No, I do not see a parallel between the brexity Catalonia. The brexit was the result of a militant xenophobic parochialism of dyes mainly driven by people marginalized by the establishment and against the European Union. The Catalans are not. First, they are not racist or xenophobic. And secondly, they want to be part of the EU. Just they do not want to be part of Spain. Is not the same. The proper comparison is between Catalonia and Scotland. They are nationalists and want to secede they do not consider theirs, but they are European. They are in favor of receiving refugees do not want new frontiers ... I'm not taking sides on whether Catalonia should be independent or Scotland should be or not. Do you think you are entitled to exercise their self - determination? That includes the United Nations Charter of 1945 . All peoples have the right to self - determination. In any case, suppose the people of Rhodes in Greece - is a fictional example - would be separated from Greece: would the rest of Greeks right to say no? I do not think so. I do not want people to be linked to me if they want. If my wife wants to separate from me, I'd be devastated, but I do not have right to stop it . The most important thing in this process is to create the political and cultural process that make people want to stay together, do not hold it together by constitutional courts and the threat of violence, something that is not natural. But you know that in the case of Catalonia are promoting this query against the Constitution, the rule of law, with no guarantees ...

I'm not a constitutional lawyer. I am not an expert on these issues. I'm not particularly support this referendum, but also not opposed to the idea of a referendum. What I would like in any country is that if a region wants to make a referendum, the Constitution be changed to not illegal to do so. This is how it should be democratic constitutions. That's what they should want all Spaniards: a Constitution that allows citizens of the republic [lapsus, corrects and says: "monarchy, unfortunately"] stay together because it really so inclined. Catalan separatists want to stay in the European Union, but if they will declare independence automatically. It is not clear ... right?

That's what it says Madrid. It's scare tactics against Barcelona. It also says the European Commission since 2004. The Commission simply responds to requests from Madrid. Face it : imagine that Catalonia through the process it - hopefully, legally and peacefully - achieved independence and goes to Brussels to say we want to stay in the EU. Find a convenient solution in five minutes reapply for entry and be readmitted. And it would be right. Because it would be in the interest of Spain that Catalonia would remain in the EU because it does not suit them borders. The single market should be maintained.

What we are promoting in Diem25 solve the problem. We want a real European Union to become a single jurisdiction, a country if you want to call it. In that scenario, what does it matter if Catalonia is part of Spain! CARLOS CARNICERO But in the current situation, it seems that other states in the European Union have no interest in facilitating a region become independent and automatically rejoin the EU. They would be encouraging other independence movements in their own countries ... That is a very backward thinking. At the time of the collapse of Yugoslavia, the entire West defended the right of Slovenia to form a republic. Slovenia was never independent. Why do we form a state? Because they thought that if they were to do so.



You know there was a war between.

Oh yeah. The war was the result of strong support from some northern European countries for Slovenia and Croatia could become independent from Yugoslavia. If you look at the world map, you will realize that Greece is the result of the partition of the Ottoman Empire, also Bulgaria, Hungary; Slovakia seceded from Czechoslovakia ... Should we, as Europeans, to create a space where these boundaries are unimportant. If you live in Madrid, Barcelona or Paris you should be a European citizen. But to generate this transnational democracy without borders should eliminate this mentality: if we allow the Basques to separate or independent cretas Greece ... The moment you start to repress something happen to lose the argument,


You know this issue very well. ¿ Not you worried about what might happen to banks in Catalonia if independizase and lose access overnight to the protection of the European Central Bank (ECB)? Not lose the protection of the ECB. The ECB is fully aware of the fragility of the banking system in Europe and find a formula easy way to extend liquidity assistance systems. Since 2008 the ECB has done extraordinary things to keep banks afloat, twisting the rules almost daily. They do the same.

"My message to Madrid: relax"

What about the frustration generated by the referenda? Voters expect things do not happen later. In Greece you promoted a referendum against austerity and after winning it , the Greeks were more austerity. It was a magnificent referendum. But that is not an argument against referendums, it is an argument against dictatorships [laughs]. We have also seen in the brexit where things were false were promised. We have to be careful with the brexit. Surveys say now that if there were a referendum would win the brexit. The problem of referenda is that if used occasionally, once every ten or twenty years, people are not educated on how to behave and can produce stupid or results difficult to integrate in the parliamentary process. 

Switzerland have a fantastic system we should emulate. A combination of federal parliament, regional parliaments and referendums constant; a beautiful mix of direct and indirect democracy. The problem is that UK have had three referendums in its history. People do not know howbehavefront of these processes. As they are not used to use referenda asinstrument of government, useasinstrument of protest. We should not rulethe referenda, but we should do more. You want many referenda do, but what you think you decide whether or nothelp refugees? I'm thinking of Viktor Orbán in Hungary, which is alsofavor of referenda on these issues ...

Democracy needs two basic pillars. One is the principle of majority, expressed either in elections or referenda. The other is the protection of civil liberties to prevent the dictatorship of the majority.  There are issues that can be voted and there are others that should never be. Otherwise, there would be lynching. For example, the death penalty should never be voted on because the state has no right to kill. And point. We have no right to decide on that. Catalonia can generate just that: a dictatorship of the majority. Society is divided and independence legality jump with the argument thatmajority in parliament ... I think  Madrid is being very stupid. 

Franco's spirit is still alive. If the referendum had been held last year, they had won the Unionists and completed matter. But as the PP can not shake off its Francoist past and its authoritarian tendencies, you are creating a drama and Catalan much worse crisis.  If David Cameron and his party had had these trends, there had beenreferendum in Scotland and the situation would be much worse now. My message to Madrid is: relax. And let vote in these circumstances? What does that mean in these circumstances? 

They are creating these circumstances based as illegal and threatening violence. That is becoming something bad to worse. Creates a vicious circle. If you do not allow vote, more Catalans want to leave. It's the stupidest way to keep united Spain. Are not you worried that in this era of Twitter and Facebook any information, whether true or false, can turn like a virus and create wrong expectations in these processes? I'm worried more by the way the powerful have used the media to deny control of the lives of most people. We saw in the movie  Citizen Kane.

In the case of Twitter or Facebook is something that we must be careful but not only in the referenda, also during parliamentary elections. The way the media deny people the opportunity to be informed and debate should be our main concern.